Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

Welcome to HubShots Episode 213: HubSpot Conversations Trends, HubSpot Sequences

This episode we discuss Conversations trends, HubSpot Email Reporting insights, and HubSpot Sequences.

Listen to the episode here: https://soundcloud.com/hubshots/213-hubspot-conversations-trends-hubspot-sequences

Welcome to HubShots - APAC's number 1 HubSpot focussed podcast - where we discuss HubSpot tips & tricks, new features, and strategies for growing your marketing results.

HubShots, the podcast for marketing managers and sales professionals who use HubSpot, hosted by Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and Craig Bailey from XEN Systems.

Recorded: Thursday 30 July 2020 | Published: Friday 07 August 2020

Shot 1: Growth Thought of the Week

Customer-Initiated Chat

From HubSpot’s COVID data portal:

“Since the business world has suddenly shifted to a remote setting, chat volume has soared. Sales teams have pivoted to chat to grow their pipelines, while customer service teams are leveraging this medium to manage the increased demand for support.”

“With the exception of two weeks, chat volume has steadily risen week-over-week since the beginning of March, peaking at 45% above the benchmark in late-May. Total chat volume in Q2 outpaced Q1 by a notable 31%. As restrictions on businesses continue to be lifted around the world, it'll be interesting to see if chat volume maintains this steady growth.”

However, compare the conversations growth with the contact growth:

Conversations may be going up, but contacts aren’t.

Shot 2: HubSpot Marketing Feature of the Week

HubSpot Email Report - Opens by Email Client

Worth reviewing the email client opens for your clients.

Here’s an example in the solar industry - notice how recipients are by far opening in Gmail:

And here’s an example in the technology space - notice how recipients by far are opening in Microsoft tools:

This can be valuable - for the first industry, it could even impact content strategy eg blog posts such as ‘How to setup XXX in GSuite to enable YYY’

Shot 3: HubSpot Sales Feature of the Week

HubSpot Sequences

HubSpot has been rolling a ton of updates to sequences lately - it is getting some love!

We are seeing the use of HubSpot AI here where it will choose the time to get the highest open rate!

The ability to unenroll contacts from the same company is also a great new addition.

If you're using HubSpot's integration with LinkedIn Sales Navigator, you can create tasks to remind you to send an InMail or connection request.  This is very useful if you are not getting any traction from email and using it as a way to engage with prospects.

Tip: What we suggest is to create a task to follow them before you make a connection or sending inMail.

Shot 4: HubShots Listener Note of the Week

Thank you to our Listeners

Thanks to Chad Treadway from Cube Creative Design for his kind comments:

“Hey, listened to the cast over the weekend. I just wanted to say I would listen to the show if it was 3 hours long :)”

No Thank you to spammers

Here’s why I am hardly on LinkedIn - over the last week only 2 connections (green line) have been actual good connections (plus this doesn’t include all the connection requests I don’t even accept) - I mute everyone who immediately tries to sell to me:

BTW this is also why I have a VA who manages my LinkedIn for me.

Shot 5: HubSpot Gotcha of the Week

HubSpot Ads Reminder

Reminder about the HubSpot Ads interface - toggling these will impact campaigns - they are not used for including/excluding from the totals at the top:

We’ve mentioned this many times before on the show - and we still see people getting caught out, so it is worth reminding about.

Shot 6: Marketing Tip of the Week

Google My Business - Google Guarantee is Coming

Google is ‘finally’ starting to roll out a paid option for Google My Business listings - the first is the Google Guarantee, currently starting in the US and Canada.

It adds a tick to your listing and offers some financial security for people who buy via your GMB listing. It requires a screening process and costs $50 USD per month.

This is just the start - take advantage of your GMB listing now - while it is still free.

Shot 7: Insight of the Week

Marketing Tech Stack versus Marketing User Experience considerations

A client is reviewing their martech stack - a combination (amongst others) of Salesforce, Sitecore and HubSpot. The goal is to consolidate as well as improve efficiency.

Since martech budgets and maintenance often sit with IT, they tend to become a capex line item that is reviewed for internal ‘financial efficiency’. However this can be at the expense of outward ‘execution efficiency’.

If your marketing team is highly efficient with some tools and not others - it is very hard to capture this on a line item to compare.

Shot 8: Trend of the Week

The Tech-Enabled Office in a Post-Covid World

CBinsights brings the insight with this long piece exploring technology changes in the office.

“To stay ahead of the curve, companies will need to consider key investments across wellness, remote collaboration tools, mobile cybersecurity tech, accessible HR tools, and workforce training programs for professional development and upskilling.”

One key item they highlighted: autonomous bathroom cleaning solutions:

Everyone is focussing on online collaboration and online learning - how many companies are focussing on these other areas?

Shot 9: Resource of the Week

Hell Yeah or No by Derek Sivers

Listening to Derek narrate his latest book has been wonderful.

Shot 10: Quote of the Week

“In the end, it's about what you want to be, not what you want to have.”

― Derek Sivers, Anything You Want

Shot 11: Bonus Links of the Week

Building Your Go-To-Market Strategy

A useful post from SEMrush covering go-to-marketing research and planning.

Conversation Ads in LinkedIn

LinkedIn is rolling out conversation ads (which they cleverly refer to as choose-your-own-adventure-path experiences).

Shot 12: Follow Us on the Socials

Connect with HubShots here: HubShots YouTube channel - HubShots Spotify channel - HubShots Facebook group - HubShots Twitter - HubShots Instagram - HubShots LinkedIn

Connect with Ian Jacob on LinkedIn and Craig Bailey on LinkedIn

HubShots is produced by Christopher Mottram from Podcastily.

Please rate and leave us some feedback as this helps us improve and reach more marketers.

Full Transcript of the Episode

- Hi everyone, welcome to HubShots' Episode 213. In this episode we discuss HubSpot conversations, or should I just say conversations, HubSpot email reporting insights and HubSpot sequences. You're listening to Asia Pacific's number one HubSpot Focus Podcast, where we discuss HubSpot tips, tricks, and strategies for growing your sales, marketing and service results. My name is Ian Jacob from Search & Be Found and with me is Craig Bailey from XEN Systems. How are you Craig?

- Hi, look I'm well Ian and I must say I haven't been like the rest of the world that seems to be doing a lot of chatting. If we were to believe the latest HubSpot COVID results, you found this from the COVID Data Portal or what have you found?

- Correct and this is really interested and it kind of piqued my interest Craig, because what was very eye opening when I split it down by region. I was like, wow, people in Asia Pacific are far up numbering these conversations more than anyone else like when we're talking about Latin America, North America and even Amir and I was like, hang on this is like interesting information, right? So I guess the sudden shift, so what they were saying the sudden shift means that people had to pivot. And I've been talking to people for a long time about implementing live chat and even using some chat bots initially, but no one did it until after COVID. And then now they're like, Oh, we should have done that. So anyway, we've done it, but it's really interesting. So what they're saying is, with the exception of two weeks, chat volume has steadily risen week over week from the beginning of March peaking at 45% above the benchmark in late May. And the total volume in Q2 outpaced Q1 which we kind of expected right? By a notable 31% and as restrictions in businesses continue to be lifted around the world I'd be interesting to see if the chat volume remains on the steady growth. Now, what I think you pointed out very aptly to me is that when you compare the contact growth, it tells a different story.

- So yeah, chat is increasing enormously up to 70%, or more than the previous benchmark, but contact growth no, pretty low, some grow, some not. Maybe in Latin America, there were contact growth was much larger, which was kind of an interesting sideline. But yeah, in APAC, yeah, it's, the chat is high and growth isn't. So I don't know if all that chat is happening with customers that are already contacts or whether people are just doing a lot more inquiry but not actually signing up for anything. I can say anecdotally, from our big clients, like big enterprises where we're doing conversion-based lead gen campaigns for them, we're getting low numbers of conversions. This is across a number of industries. And we're scratching our head, plenty of traffic, plenty of engagement, lots of paid ads, lots of spend but people are just not signing up for stuff. And we puzzled, I think, we're trying a whole bunch of things, but maybe that people are just ad-fatigued and they seem to show interest, but they won't go the next step. They won't even hand over an email address. And so we're finding that really weird, so that kind of correlates with what was seeing in these graphs from the HubSpot Data Portal.

- Yes, I guess, again, Craig, it depends, because on some of our customer portals, we're seeing very low to no engagement over chat. But then on others where people are buying certain goods that they need, there is a decent level of engagement on a daily basis to the point where what we started doing was we started off with live chat, now we've put a bot to start the chat, to collect some information and then we're moving into a live chat scenario. So it's really interesting to see what's happening and again, like I tell people, it's all good theory until you test and measure it. So, with the tools that you have, you should be able to get this going really quickly to understand is it effective in your market space. Now, Craig on to our marketing, HubSpot marketing feature of the week, and this is the HubSpot email report and email opens by client.

- Yeah, I'll draw everyone's attention to this 'cause this is hiding right down the bottom of an email report. So you've sent out an email campaign, let's say, you go and view it, you see all the results, of course it's got that at the top, you know, opens and click throughs and all of that, you scroll right to the bottom and you see this opens by email client. So I've got two screenshots from two different portals here. In the first one, we see a massive skew towards Gmail up around 60% of opens are in Gmail. And in fact, when you look at how many Outlook or Microsoft Office based opens, it's less than 5% total for this newsletter sent. And then in the second screenshot, I've got an example from one of our clients in the technology space and you almost say the reverse, massive opening by Microsoft tools. So why am I highlighting this? Well, first of all, it's not unexpected, you know, in the technology space, and especially this client here, they're actually SQL Server consultancy. So do expect at Microsoft, but in the first instance, it's like, Oh, these are actually for solar dealers and we're like, oh, seeing no Microsoft tools in solar dealerships. It's all G Suite. Now, and so that gives us insight into what kind of content we could be writing. So just a simple example for this it might be on how to use G Suite and connect it to HubSpot, for example, or how to use the latest extensions in G Suite for growing your business. So the point of mentioning this is, I think it's one of those things that people often overlook, they like I don't care what they open my email in, and so well maybe you should check it out because depending on the industry they're in, there might be some content ideas there to take advantage of.

- Absolutely right, Craig, and I think you highlighted something very key to providing some insight to people with very little effort. Alright, now on to our sales feature the week Craig and this has to do with HubSpot sequences.

- I'm so looking forward to hearing you talk about this 'cause you know what, I don't use HubSpot sequences at all. We don't use it with any of our clients. So I just wanted to say that up front, because I know I try and be across everything. But sequences is just something I've not used at all and not with our clients. So talk us through it, we've talked about it on the show, and I understand how it works. But having not actually implemented it, I can't talk with authority. So tell us all about it 'cause I know you're using it with a ton of your clients.

- Yes, we are Craig and so one of the things, so there's heaps of things to, in sequences, but I'll highlight some of the changes that have come in which will actually help people. So the first one is we're gonna see, just because we love HubSpot AI, here's more, and this is where it will enable you to choose a time so you get the highest open rate and we've got a screenshot in there and you can send those automated emails. And you can specify the time, which is actually really cool. So between certain hours.

- Actually, maybe we should go back a step. For listeners that don't actually know what HubSpot Sequences is, do you wanna give a very quick summary of the functionality?

- So it's a sequence of events, that generally involve, could be a task, can be email, can be you getting a task to send in email, what happens is that you initiate it from HubSpot, or from an inbox as a sequence, you choose, so let's say that there's seven steps in here, you choose when each of those steps will be triggered, or you give these, sometimes defaults. And then what happens is, when you initiate the sequence, and it's in, someone's enrolled in it, it's basically like you are taking those action through your inbox, but the system is doing on your behalf. So it's pretty much like a one on one interaction. And the way you break the sequence or a way people get out of it is if they respond to that Email, that's how it breaks the sequence and they get unenrolled. The other way they would do it is manually and that is say somebody gets your email, and then they call you up, then you should unenroll them from the sequence so they don't keep getting the next email that says, Hey, I haven't heard from you. So those are two ways to get people out of the sequence. But it's really a one on one interaction between two people that's automatically executed. So the next thing, Craig, which is really good is the ability to unenroll contacts from the same company is a great new addition and this is in the settings, you can actually turn this on so it'll unenroll all the people from that company. Now, sometimes this is not valid, because you might be speaking to different people. But I guess this is important if people are trying to get in touch with multiple people that may be in the same team. So they just wanna make sure that they're stopping this from going out any further once they've made that contact. The next thing I wanted to share was the ability to Connect LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and to send Sales Navigator email and connection requests. Now this is great, right? But here's a little tip that we're doing with one of our clients is, before we even do this, we have created a task, which ends up going to the person in sales to say, look, if these things haven't happened, what we suggest is you follow them on LinkedIn. So go follow, see what they're doing, and be educated before taking the next step. So the next time they make a call, they can actually talk about something about what they know what that person is doing or what's been going on in the industry that will help them bridge that gap. And then after that, I would say then make the connection requests without randomly connecting to people without intent.

- Okay, so give some examples of how you're using this with your clients. And also earlier before the show you were telling me an insight that you'd found with one of your clients without sending out, and you can Check response rates and all those kinds of things to gauge success.

- Correct and there is a lot of great reporting around sequences. And in, this is in the sales content analysis. As an example I was doing it with one of my clients, they noticed that they'd enrolled over 100 people in a sequence, but they only had 11 opens, and with an average reply rate of 7.7%. So we actually looked at why this would be the case. And we looked at the first email, we looked at the subject line, looked at the first sentence and they've got somebody new in sales and he looked at it, he goes, ah, I don't know if I got that subject line and I saw that, I'd be like, it's not really enticing me. So we went, Okay, well, let's change the subject line and let's change that first sentence. So it's a bit more enticing and one of the guys in the team, I've been working with him and he's quite an interesting character, and he always put something quirky and actually, I thought it was really good. So I said, What have you sent that has actually made people open your email, so he said, Oh, I have had this title, and I put this as the first sentence. I said, Okay, well, let's try that for the next month, and see whether we can increase the open rate and increase the interaction that people are having. So that's what we're gonna test over the next 30 days. So, but that's a really good insight. So looking at the numbers, makes a massive difference in this whole process, and always be refining and testing. So don't be afraid through the whole process we've actually changed stuff. So we're looking at sequences as people, as sales team using, we're looking and seeing what is working, then they say, Oh, no, that doesn't work. We can't send, do this task here. Can we shift that? So sequences have becomes so much more flexible, where you're able to move the task or the particular action down or up based on where it needs to happen. And it's made a massive difference. That's all I can say is that don't be afraid to try new things.

- You've inspired me, I've got to get into this. There's some areas as much as I love the product, I just can't be across everything. And this is one of those things that I've really neglected. And perhaps some of our listeners have too. So join me, let's play with sequences further.

- All right, Craig. HubSpot listener of the week I wanted to shout out to Chad Treadway from Cube Creative Design, by the way, nice link there for you, added in the show notes. Chad, thanks for listening, a great supporter of the show. He's, we've emailed back and forth a number of times, pretty sick, 'cause you know how we asked, should we increase the length or keep it shorter and--

- Yes,

- So he very kindly replied and Hey, listen Listened to the Cast over the weekend, I wanna say I would listen to the show, even if it was three hours long. Oh, my goodness, that's commitment there and very much appreciate that comment Chad, thanks for being a great supporter and that made my day. I know this probably took him 10 seconds to shoot that email through but it made my day. So thanks, and thanks to listeners who send us that.

- Now listeners because Craig loves doing things live. I was actually thinking of doing either a YouTube or a Facebook Live, and just to encourage people to jump on. And you can ask us questions. So if you're interested, please message us on LinkedIn and tell us or on Instagram and let us know. Because I'm actually keen to try it out, Craig, not so much on the other hand, but--

- No, I'm quite, I'll do it, you'll force me to do it. Okay, I'll do it. But hey, speaking of LinkedIn, so that first part was thanks to our listeners and thanks Chad in particular, but no thanks to spammers. And I've put in a screenshot this is from my own LinkedIn messages screen so that you can see why I'm almost about to give up on LinkedIn. I mean, I'm hardly on social channels anyway. But this will give you insight. So in the screenshot, you can see whenever I get someone, first line of defense, I get a whole bunch of connection requests and you know, I accept some and then I decline others or all my VA actually does a lot of this for me, but then over the ones that make it through in the screenshot, you can see how many I've muted, right? I go through and, and this is as soon as I connect with someone they send me, hi, I wanna sell you stuff, like I can't mute, so that they, you know, 'cause otherwise they're using, you know, Phantom Buster or whatever, any of these LinkedIn spamming tools to just set up sequences. And so in the screenshot, there's only two in the last week out of all the connections, and I've marked them in green, that are actually valid, and they were listeners and so they were the only good requests, while they're two listeners, and thank you for those connections, they didn't try and sell me stuff. And someone even said, I'm not trying to sell you stuff. I guess I noticed too well now, but oh my goodness, I have so much. It's a bit of a dumpster fire LinkedIn, isn't it? It's just so.

- You what know, Craig I didn't even know about that mute feature. So thank you for letting me know. And listeners if you are listening and you wanna mute the messages or the message from that particular person. I try to find it looking at Craig's screenshot and had no idea where to go. So you need to make sure that it's the three dots in the main section where you see the messages. When you click there, you'll get the option to mute the person. It's not in the section where you see Craig's screenshot.

- All right, maybe I should put a second screenshot 'cause yeah, until, I just thought everyone knew about it. And you can also unconnect, I don't normally unconnect well then maybe I'm getting--

- It's like unfriending people, Craig

- Unfriending, yeah, but you can just get your VA to do it. They just go in, anyone that tries to sell you stuff straightaway mute or if it's particularly bad, I just disconnect but you can tell when they even try and connect if they're spammy, so, normally I don't even accept those ones. Anyway, I've gone off on a rant on LinkedIn. In fact, I've probably spend much time ranting about LinkedIn than I've actually spent on LinkedIn in the last week. Okay, lets move on.

- Yeah, I'll give a shout out to your VA, Marrie.

- Yes, Marrie, you're wonderful.

- All right onto our HubShot Gotcha of the Week Craig and this is the HubSpot ads reminder and this is a reminder to people, if you're looking at the ads interface, and you see that lovely button that looks like you're turning things on or off, what that is gonna do, is gonna stop or pause your campaign. So don't play with those buttons thinking it's gonna fix your reporting on the dashboard, it actually turns the campaign off.

- We've talked about this a number of times on the show before and it still keeps catching our clients. So this is a screenshot from today for a client, actually, we're not working with them at the moment, but we used to, but going in and doing some, a little bit of training. And then someone just goes in Oh, yeah and here's how we look at reporting and I'll just turn this off to update the title. No, no, you've turned the campaign off. Well, whoops, turn it back on. It's just a bad user interface. This is a user interface.

- Faux pas.

- Is it faux pas what's the word?

- No, it's bad,

- Of that design, yeah, a design where it's not. It's exceedingly easy to use, but not intuitive enough to protect you from yourself, there's a word for that kind of design. But this files.

- All right, Craig onto our marking tip of the Week and this is Google My Business and the Google guarantee is coming. Haven't we spoken about this a few times?

- How long have we been saying paid things are coming to Google My Business. So take advantage of your Google My Business listing while you can. But plus this kind of, this Google guarantee, well, it's only available in the US and Canada at the moment, but I'm sure it's gonna roll out to other regions. So hopefully it comes to Australia, and we'll get a chance to use it. So we haven't actually used it yet ourselves but looking at it, it's 50 bucks a month, and they give you a guarantee and a tick and I would jump on that, frankly, for the credibility it provides.

- Absolutely,

- And the Google My Business thing for a bunch of our clients, especially if they're local businesses, you know, I don't know 'cause we don't really get much local business and not all local businesses such be how to sell for our own agency, but for our clients, a lot of our clients, it's a no brainer. 50 bucks a month to get that tick, jump on it.

- I would. And just to speed up the screening process and to have the support, I think that's well worth it. All right, Craig our Insight of the week, Martech Stack versus marketing, user experience considerations.

- All right, so speaking with a client raised, I want to say there not a large corporate but they're mid to large company, hundreds of staff, not thousands but big and a number of systems so big enough to have a legacy and complexity within their Martech Stack. They brought in an outside consultant to review and improve in terms of efficiency. So we're part of the discussions with them, quite a number of platforms they're using but the three of interest for this discussion are Salesforce, Sitecore and HubSpot. They're on HubSpot enterprise. They're on a Salesforce huge thing they used to have Pardot but they scrapped that HubSpot took over that. But they've got Sitecore for their site, and they've got quite a complex registration piece on their site. So they need Sitecore for that, it's custom integrated with Salesforce. HubSpot is not a fit for replacing their website with its complexity. But they love HubSpot for landing pages, email marketing, social campaigns, and overall reporting, 'cause we have the pixel across their site as well. Anyway, the consultants come in, and part of the remit is to review and consolidate. And what's interesting about this whole situation is that often Martech budgets and maintenance sit with IT. And so they're normally a CapEx startup, So they're a CapEx budget under the IT. Line item so that's often reviewed for financial efficiency, purely just on cost of platform. And the reason I've got this in Insight of the week is because it's very hard to argue, well not argue, but to discuss anything except a financial line item. And what I was explaining today when we're chatting with them is the user experience of HubSpot in particular because they hated Pardot, they're frustrated with Sitecore for a number of reasons not all Sitecores are fault, I have to say. But they love HubSpot. And so what we've seen is this HubSpot go from what was just initially a few landing pages with some nurture campaigns into now a portal that has hundreds of pages and also they're sending hundreds of separate email campaigns every month. They're sending, I was looking over the last, just last couple of months they've had almost half a million email since coming out of HubSpot portal. And the reason for that and that traction and you just see it go up over the last two years since we've had HubSpot in there, the users love it. And even then I was looking at their user list and I was like oh, wow, you've got like 20 people from the company in here, oh yeah, we're all doing emails, everyone loves it. Of course, IT doesn't see that, they just see a cost for HubSpot. They don't see the actual user experience and the outward outcome from that, more emails that's actually driving revenue. All they see is the internal piece. And so I just wanted to highlight this for agencies and also marketing managers, just to think about that you've got to be aware of this, especially when you're talking about enterprise tools that often falls on IT. So it's a Martech IT cost rather than a marketing revenue cost. So it's cost setup versus revenue setup. And by the way, that's why you're starting to see IT report to the CMOs now, because the CMO is a revenue driver whereas IT tends to be a cost center still in some cases. So outcome of all of this, very hard to actually put a dollar figure on user experience and people loving the tool. But as a marketing manager, you need to because just by using the tool, you might have saved staff costs and things like that. So it might actually be having a financial effect, very hard to capture and put on a line item. But just another example of where HubSpot is providing value in a way that the whole enterprise benefit from, but it's not necessarily recognized for.

- I couldn't agree more, Craig, I think we were having this discussion not long ago about thinking the tool was expensive. But the tool that someone would be currently using is taking 10 times longer to do things in and giving less data to make the right choices. And I thought, did you ever figure out how much that was costing you, rather than saving money on the tool? So you know, you're absolutely right. And this is what we're seeing across a lot of organizations. This is not dissimilar to what you have just mentioned in terms of what people are experiencing and how critical it is now that these tools are operating and usable to get the result that people want. Now talking about that Craig, what's a trend of the week?

- This is from CB Insights. CB Insights, bringing the insights with a long piece exploring technology changes in the office and when you talk about this post-COVID world which apparently everyone's using post-COVID world, that's a term now or new normal, I'm sick of hearing that, but they talk about what's gonna change. And of course, we all jump to the usual go-tos, which are online collaboration, online learning, then were gonna go, this article highlights a few other trends, autonomous cleaning solutions in bathrooms. I'm just gonna pick on that one. Because, of course, and when you read the article, it's like, yeah, this is technology robots, one of your clients, I'm not sure if we can mention them by name. But they actually make these cleaning machines and robots that will actually work in offices. And it's like, everyone's talking about online learning, that's that's the cool topic. No one's talking about the machines that are cleaning bathrooms to keep us safe. And so the takeaway from me was, think outside just the usual examples that everyone's talking about, look at these insights, CB Insights, see article there worth reading, and just expanding your thinking.

- Yeah, I'll tell you one thing I came across the other day, Craig, as I was going into a shopping center to get something and you usually got to push the button to get the parking ticket, anyway so this time it was like, hey, wave your hand in the parking ticket will come out and I thought, Oh, that's interesting. So here we go, there are so many of these things, like you rightly say that are taking place, that are not just directly technology related, but how we go about our daily lives. And I think there's so much opportunity. So if you're a business and you go I'm stuck, and I don't know what to do, take a day out, get some people together, even people that are not in your business and think about what you can do to take advantage of what is happening right now. 'Cause you might be surprised what you come up with. All right, Cray, we've got a great resource of the week and we both love it, Derek Sivers and his new book, "Hell Yeah or No"

- Yeah, Derek Sivers, as many people will know, we talked about him on the show before he built a online CD store called CD Baby. And he's had a number of books, I'm listening to this, I don't normally listen to audiobooks. I'm much more of a reader. But I'm listened to, he's a great narrator. He has a wonderful voice and he's got these sound effects and just some really nice quirks in terms of an audio like, I'm really enjoying it. It's really inspiring me to think, along the lines of our quote of the week, which you found also from Derek Severs, which is,

- In the end, it's about what you want to be. Not what you want to have. There it is Craig. All right, there are some bonus links, listeners about building your go-to market strategy. And it's a useful post from SEMrush about covering your go-to marketing research and planning. So I'd encourage people to actually look at that. And also LinkedIn is rolling out conversation ads, and they, what do they refer to it as Craig?

- They've quickly referred to them as choose your own path, experiences way to say this with client now, so yeah, that's a nice play on there. Remember the old Choose Your Own Adventure books when you're a kid? I used to love those. But yeah, choose your own path experience. I think that's the way to go. So it's a combination between more of a bot, or chat bot and in my own kind of experience, so yeah, LinkedIn finally catching up and perhaps even innovating,

- And listeners again, please follow us on the socials, please connect with Craig and myself on LinkedIn. And send us a note that you listen to the show. We'd love to hear from you. We love to hear from our listeners. Thank you so much for everyone that has connected. Shout out to Christopher Mottram from Podcastily that produces our podcast. Thank you, Chris, for the great work that you've done in the almost five years we've been doing this together.

- Listeners tell us what you think of the outro music.

- Oh, yes, that's right.

- But until next week Ian, I'll catch you later Ian.

- See you Craig.

- Hey there, thanks for listening to this episode of HubShots. To get the latest show notes, HubSpot tips and resources sign up at HubShot.com. You can also book time with us to help you grow better with HubSpot.